Tuesday, 9 November 2021

The Scouring of Che-Shire 1: Dan Slob's weekend and the problem with magic.

Hello all, this week several of the team will be writing up their experiences of The Scouring of Che-Shire, a 700 point tournament in Stockport, hosted by the excellent Ste Crowe. The weekend was fantastic and all 6 of the DC team that attended had a brilliant time. I am running out of synonyms for "great" now so here's what I took:



Imrahil with Armoured Horse and Lance (Army Leader)
2 Knights of Dol Amroth with Armoured Horse and Lance
3 Clansmen of Lamedon
3 Axemen of Lossarnach
4 Men at Arms of Dol Amroth

Boromir, Captain of the White Tower with The Banner of Minas Tirith, Horse and Shield
4 Guards of the Fountain Court with Shields
2 Knights of Minas Tirith with Shields
6 Warriors of Minas Tirith with Shields
2 Warriors of Minas Tirith with Spear and Shield

Damrod, Ranger of Ithilien
3 Rangers of Minas Tirith with Spears
1 Ranger of Minas Tirith

Total Points: 700
Total Models: 33
Break Point: 16 left (17 dead)
Total Might: 10
Green Alliance


I basically took this because I have been painting Fiefdoms but not enough to make a whole army. I know what I am doing with Boromir and his flag so he came along too. Damrod and his Rangers are there to be a bit of a throw-away warband, they can sit on an objective or support with spears depending on the scenario. I can't remember exact lists so I will summarise each one that I played against, along with a short description of the game.

Game 1, Assassination: Serpent Horde and Corsairs

This was Suladan, the Betrayer and Dalamyr (the leader) with 50% Bows/Crossbows (around 25 in total). 

I don't have much choice but to run at this list as fast as possible since he will shoot me off the board in no time if left to his own devices! This is exactly what I did. My target was Suladan (I thought he would be the one who was more stuck in) and my assassin was Boromir. Boromir got held up by Dalamyr's Smoke Bombs (boy do I hate Transfix effects, as you will see throughout the rest of the tournament). In the end I couldn't quite make it to Suladan as he was hiding the whole game, and Boromir was killed off by Dalamyr and some spells. It was a close, fun, game that ended in a 5-3 loss.


Game 2, Seize the Prize: Garrison of Dale

This was the new Brand, Bard and a Captain leading an absolute tonne of Knights of Dale. There were also 14 of the scary bows!

We both ran for the prize and I got there first thanks to cavalry. I chose not to dig it up and instead hold his line back until my troops arrived. This worked fairly well though the KoD's fancy spears did make them quite scary. My opponent was super unlucky that he failed to pick up the prize 3 times while the melee was happening and then Imrahil got it on his second try. Boromir and Imrahil did most of the killing and in the end it was a 7-2 win for me.


Game 3, Contest of Champions: Angmar

This was the Witch King, a Barrow Wight, a Captain and 2 Trolls (plus orcs).

The only way I was going to win this was by deleting the Witch King immediately, as otherwise Imrahil would spend the entire game Transfixed/Paralysed. I spent a tonne of resources to allow Imrahil to charge the Witch King turn 1 and took all 3 Fate off him but failed to kill him (this cost me all of Imrahil's Might and Will, as well as a Might from Damrod to call a Move). Having failed to do what I needed Imrahil was then Paralysed and Troll-ed to death. Meanwhile Boromir was also Paralysed and Transfixed the entire game once Imrahil died. My opponent was thoroughly lovely but this was one of the least fun games I have ever played just because I could not do anything at all. Again, nothing to do with my opponent, just playing against Angmar with big heroes is miserable. 6-1 loss. 


Game 4, Hold Ground: Return of the King LL

Aragorn, Legolas, King of the Dead and some ghosts.

This was always going to be difficult for my opponent, just because I both outnumber and out-Fight him. He made a valiant effort to get past the objective and hold me away from it, but in the end my bigger numbers meant I could wrap and trap a lot of ghosts. My opponent did get unlucky a few times with Aragorn in that he called a couple of heroic combats that he either lost or didn't kill everyone in. In the end though I just had more troops near the objective. 5-2 win.


Game 5, Breakthrough: Angmar

This was The Tainted, Burdhur and 2 Barrow Wights (plus another Troll and orcs).

The only reason I won this is because of some key bits of luck. As usual, Boromir and Imrahil spent the entire game Transfixed/Paralysed, but Boromir hung on against Burdhur for long enough that he couldn't smash up the rest of my list. Imrahil also recovered from a Paralyse at exactly the right moment to once again hold up his line. We did this enormous brawl over one of the centre objectives, and in the end I lost it, but I managed to sneak around to hold my own objective, the other centre one and contest his objective. This lead to a very close 3-2 win.




Game 6, Divide and Conquer: Gothmog's Legion

Gothmog, Goroth, the Enforcer, a Troll and a boat load of orcs.

This scenario is one of the reasons I brought Damrod's warband as it mean essentially my entire force is in one corner while his is split. With this in mind I went and smashed up Goroth and the Troll (spending 7 Might to do so!) and then turned around to face the other two thirds of his army. My cavalry were able to circle round the back of his force while Boromir and the foot troops held the line. In the end it was a bit of a massacre and a 12-0 win. 




So that put me on 4-2 and 18th overall (out of 88). I am pretty pleased with that but it did give me some thoughts about the game, in particular to do with Magic. The 3 games I had against lists with no magic were really fun and felt like they could go either way. The 3 games I played against lists with magic were mostly miserable affairs (again, nothing to do with my opponents who were all lovely) where I really felt like I couldn't play the game and just had to sit there while my opponent played. 





There are now a lot of models in the game that have a lot of Will (Ringwraiths) or infinite Will (most of the named Wizards) that they can use to just shut down an opponent completely. When your non-wizard characters have at most 3 Will to defend themselves with it feels like you get 1 or 2 turns to play and then you are at their mercy for the rest of the game. This just isn't fun at all. With the new Vanquishers LL just being released and a lot of talk about how good they are too, I think this is a bigger problem than ever. You either have to take a Wizard as an auto-include (hence the prevalence of Lady of Light being souped into lists) or accept that your heroes could simply not take part in a game. I don't like this at all, and honestly from now on if my list is going to depend on heroes I will just bring LoL or the Witch King with me no matter what. At least that way I will get to play the game, or can respond to magic in kind. 

I am by no means a game designer but there are a couple of ways I can think of to fix this problem:
  • Whenever a model is affected by a spell they get a free point of Will to counter it (just like with Galadriel's new Banishment in the LL) and then the Will in their profile can be used for those really important turns.
  • Make "control" spells harder to cast e.g. Transfix/Compel. The Witch King one-dicing Transfix every turn with a reroll when you can't counter it is just such a "feels bad" moment. If it was 5+ to cast this would not be anywhere near as reliable. 
  • Make casting values higher but use 2D6 to cast them, i.e 1 Will point gets you 2 dice to cast but spells could require an 8+ or 9+ to cast, allowing you to be more granular with casting values.
  • Make Magic work the same as Good shooting does, i.e. you need to have direct line of site with no in-the-ways and not into combat.
These ideas have their pros and cons. I still want Magic to be a part of this game and I also want it to be able to be impactful, but I hate that if one person brings Magic and the other doesn't then it often feels like there isn't a game to be had. There are some offenders that are worse than others (looking at you Angmar) and the vast majority of armies don't fall into this category but I think it is something that is worth thinking about. 

Now I know this might come across as a bit salty, and I know I have encountered an extreme here (bringing two big heroes and playing against control magic in 3 out of 6 games). I also know there is counter play in tagging the wizards before they move (though they often hide behind their lines so this is impossible to achieve, hence my fourth suggested "fix"). I also know that in practice the shifts I have suggested are too big to happen mid-edition so aren't going to happen. Nonetheless, my games this weekend left me thinking and it has been the biggest take-home that I have had, and with several reports of how un-fun the new Vanquishers are to play against I do think now is a good time to talk about it. 

Anyway, enough ranting now. Thanks again to Ste for a great weekend, and even though I was sad to not win a sword I think it is probably for the best since I have a two year old running around! Can't wait for the next one in March!



2 comments:

  1. I get your frustration - I love magic but I love it because it's an asymmetric way of dealing with really big threats. If you don't bring magic and someone shows up with Imrahil and Boromir on the other side of the table (making those Fiefdoms warriors F6 if they're within the bubble ranges of both guys), you basically need to have "a bigger club" in order to have a fighting chance. The Army of Gothmog doesn't have many big clubs outside of their Trolls, so I don't them having a prayer against that kind of army (especially since any front-line guys can Feint because the pikes will be F5/6, making the Feint no-risk).

    The new edition did tone magic down (Transfix is a pale shadow of what it was) and resisting magic did get "better" in that a natural 6 on a spent Will point gets you the Will back, you get to use Resistant to Magic before you run out of Will, and some models got more Will than they had before. The limit of 3 Will on models that aren't casters is a bit of let-down though and Aragorn, Boromir, and Eomer fans everywhere regret this when they run up against multiple casters.

    But I think that's what's ACTUALLY bothering you - it's when there's more than one caster in an army that magic becomes oppressive. When you only have on caster to think about, he may be able to lock down one hero with his magic, but can't lock down everyone. I recently played against a friend and ran 4 Barrow-Wights (mean, I know) - and the problem with that kind of list is that you can nuke the heroes one by one and there's not much counter-play. A single Barrow-Wight is "manageable" but once you start adding them, you get problems.

    Not sure what the best way to solve this is, but there are lots of factions/Legions (Black Riders wasn't mentioned in your post but certainly qualifies) that rely on their magic. Would be nice if we didn't get driven to leave our big-baddies at home out of fear of facing them.

    ReplyDelete
  2. One of the problems here is that you are, essentially, arguing "The list I play here should be the best kind of list you should be allowed to play"

    It isn't especially more fun to watch your army crumble in the face of the handful of VERY best heroes in the game, and nerfing magic means, essentially, boromirs, azogs, and gil galads now just do the same sort of thing but to your entire army.

    ReplyDelete